Hi Liesel,

Thanks again for letting me interview you! Here's the full text - let me know if you want me to make any changes before I publish.

Thanks again,

Lauren

Trigger warning: This interview discusses rape and sexual assault.

When I set out to interview Liesel St. Claire I wasn’t sure what to expect. We were meant to be talking about how she felt being the only female in her band and the differences she’s noticed between that and her days in girl group Green Square. Liesel, who has outright claimed not to use the word “feminist” to describe herself in the past is nevertheless a supporter of the feminism movement and I was curious about her insights. I’ve spoken to many women about their feelings towards the music industry, but none of them had experienced it from two unique perspectives as Liesel has.

Before the interview, we got to talking about the news that California is moving ever closer to being the first state to teach mandatory “yes means yes” education in high schools. Last year California became the first US state to require public-funded colleges to use “yes means yes” when investigating sexual assaults. As it turned out, Liesel had a lot to say about the ways we view consent and we both felt that made for a more interesting conversation than discussing sexism in music.

LAUREN: What is it about “yes means yes” that’s so important to you?

LIESEL: The trouble with something like “no means no” is that we’re taught to believe the absence of a no means yes. Unfortunately, that isn’t always the case. Consent doesn’t always have to be verbal, but even just saying “hey, are you into this?” will clear up any ambiguity without killing the mood.

LAUREN: Some people would say that “no means no” is enough and women need to speak up if they’re in a situation they’re not comfortable with.

LIESEL: There are so many factors at play when you talk about sex. It’s not always about rape, either. I’ve been raped, but I’ve also had sex when I didn’t really want to - and I think there’s a pretty big difference between the two. I like to think the guys I had sex with would have stopped if I’d said “no”, which I didn’t - but if they’d been looking for a “yes” instead then we would never have had sex.

LAUREN: Why didn’t you feel like you could say no?

LIESEL: I was young and in my social circle it was pretty much expected that you’d hook up with some guy if he wanted to. That led to some messed up beliefs about myself and sex in general. I don’t think I ever really saw it as something consensual and fun. I didn’t have great self-esteem and if a guy was interested in me, then who was I to say no to him? I’m definitely not saying everyone’s experience is like mine and I think - fortunately - a lot of girls are far more empowered than I was at their age, but the danger is still there. It’s easy to be coerced into something or to feel like saying no is futile, so you may as well just go along with it.

LAUREN: But you don’t call that rape.

LIESEL: No, I don’t. Other people might and that’s fine, but those men would have - I hope - been horrified at the idea that they somehow forced me into sex. And personally in that particular situation I could have said no. They wouldn’t have hurt me, they wouldn’t have been angry, there was no immediate danger that meant I couldn’t have stopped it. It was a psychological thing and it was my own issues that they didn’t know about, so I don’t put it on them. I know some people would disagree with me about that, but when you’re talking about rape I don’t think it’s ever black and white. I would never have reported them or accused them of raping me, maybe that’s the difference. But something like “yes means yes” will hopefully stop those sorts of situations from happening so often. Actively looking for consent is a totally different thing.

LAUREN: “yes means yes” is really focused on colleges around the country right now. Do you think that will have an impact on society as a whole?

LIESEL: I hope so. One of the things I like most about it is the way it redefines sex away from the traditional idea that men go chasing after it and women grant or deny it, into something that both parties want and consent to together. I like to think we’ve left behind the idea that when a woman says no you should just ignore her unless she says it five or six times because maybe you can persuade her to change her mind. For me, this is the next step - not “did she say no?” but “did you both say yes?”

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hi lauren

i've been thinking about it, and seeing everything i've said written down hits a little too close to home and it's just too personal to put out there. will you hate me if we go back to the original idea and find time to talk about music instead?

- liesel

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No of course not! I totally get it. Just let me know when you're free for Intervew #2.

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